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Author Topic: High Speed Skill Surf  (Read 11035 times)

Offline SintaxError

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High Speed Skill Surf
« on: April 29, 2010, 03:07:23 AM »
One of the things I always somewhat disliked about most skill maps is that a lot of them tend to increase the difficulty by making it difficult to accelerate and gain speed and requiring the player to cross gaps that require a good speed/proper projection to cross.  What I want to see (or make, if I ever get a capable box)  is a skill map based on the assumption that the player will be going at super high speed from the start.

You could do this by adding accelerators (high speed push) at the spawn.  Difficulties would be created by sharp angles, narrow areas, and low overhead passages.  Essentially exactly opposite of most skill maps today.  To stop people from simply slowing down to pass these obstacles, a mapper could simply add a jump/gap that would require the surfer to keep their speed up.

Any thoughts on this?  I've admittedly been out of the game for a while.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 03:20:35 AM by SintaxError »

Offline S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

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Re: Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2010, 03:13:15 AM »
I like this idea, it's like the first stage of the first commune (not spawn, AC's section). If you don't keep your speed right you'll never make the gap and finish it. Could be a nice idea to base a map off of.

Offline SintaxError

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Re: Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2010, 03:20:19 AM »
Kind of like that, but the difficulties would come from having to do things at a very high speed.  For example, making your way through a set of scattered columns or turning a bunch of sharp corners very precisely.  Kind of similar to maps where you have to move about while falling through a bunch of sections, except you would be surfing instead of falling.  I'm sure there's plenty more obstacles people can think up too.

A lot of these concepts exist in current skill maps, but usually I find that the difficulties come from lack of speed rather than too much speed.  Not always the case, but still, it would be neat and probably more fun if you were always surfing super fast instead of always fighting to keep your speed.  

My favorite part of surfing has always been zipping around surf maps, anyway.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 03:28:45 AM by SintaxError »

Offline Buck Nasty

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Re: Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2010, 03:21:36 AM »
X-Shark's digital G was somewhat like your description. It was a matter of hitting the ramps right to build up maximum momentum. However, you didn't start at a high speed.

Offline SintaxError

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2010, 03:28:26 AM »
^^^ X-Shark was the man. ^^^

The more I think about it, the more I think that this is probably what the creator of surf_leet was going for when he made the map.  So, maybe this would be like a more updated/more difficult version of that concept.

You could even have an old school throwback and have it start with the leet spawn.

Offline spoz

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2010, 08:25:19 AM »
Better not be thinking of super smooth ramp bs for this. One of the best things about leet was its blockyness
Quote
But if u really wanna see a screwed up map take a look at that greatriver awesome 1... freaked the shit out of me... its like a child molestation adventure.....

Offline unt0uch4bl3

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2010, 10:59:47 AM »
Just make sure the obstacles aren't too crazy. What I mean is, if u haven't played surf construction. Try the very end of stage 2. Its just not even fun.

Offline Sangfroid

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2010, 12:05:56 PM »
hehe, i find more of a problem with small stages, small ramps, small gaps, etc. it's just not fun, and yeah.. end of 2 on construction sucks, it's just bad design, forcing you to loose speed because of low airaccel when you turn too fast.

bad surf happens when people don't accept they need to change things when testing, or don't test at all. i'm guilty of the prior, because i'm lazy. i'll have all these crazy ideas about how the surf will work, but notice my awesome spawn doesn't give enough speed, so i'll just settle for something sub-par.

but anyways~, i love high speed surf.. and you're right, there aren't many stages/maps where you keep the fast speed you have due to weird obstacles. it would be nice to see something fast paced throughout. big grid usage though =d

~i copied this from someone else. it's awesome~

Offline FAJ

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2010, 12:11:46 PM »
I agree with the first sentence there. Levels are much more claustrophobic now, and mappers tend to finish mapping one obstacle and start right in with the next one. There is no surf inbetween, just a series of gaps and walls.

Offline hellraisedsurfer

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 07:38:12 PM »
at this time, surf is ... difficult, theres not many styles of mapping at the moment, ever newly released map got the same claustrophobic design, small spins, small holes etc. also theres alot about hitting the ramp smooth with perfection to keep speed while you slow down and gain speed several times over the stage, like Surf_Euphoria, a great example when you talk about this kind of difficulty

This would be a great and different concept, it would be a relief from all these compact maps.
It took a lot of complicated incest to produce the Buckaj 

Offline spoz

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 08:33:52 PM »
Frankly I would have loved to have seen (and still would) a full map like the "air" section of superhappier
Quote
But if u really wanna see a screwed up map take a look at that greatriver awesome 1... freaked the shit out of me... its like a child molestation adventure.....

Offline hellraisedsurfer

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2010, 01:04:49 PM »
that would be neat to:) or the one with the moving ramps \
It took a lot of complicated incest to produce the Buckaj 

Offline Paul

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2010, 02:18:19 PM »
that would be neat to:) or the one with the moving ramps \

MOVING RAMPS IS A CRIME AGAINST HAMMER!

Moving anything else is ok.

Offline spoz

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2010, 03:09:20 PM »
funhouse taught us this!
Quote
But if u really wanna see a screwed up map take a look at that greatriver awesome 1... freaked the shit out of me... its like a child molestation adventure.....

Offline bravesurf

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2010, 05:10:48 AM »
Difficulties would be created by sharp angles, narrow areas, and low overhead passages.
+ High speed
+ ping
= not fun. like tomb3 lvl 4.
might work on local, but that shit aint funny in real life. although a lot of people are up for the challenge of "super fast reaction surf", the CS:S engine is not. It's so slow and unsmooth that this would be like 30-40% luck.
Skillsurf needs more ideas, not more speed.

Offline Panzerhandschuh

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2010, 06:31:05 AM »
Bravesurf look at your own map, surf_this, there's tons of speed and it requires a good amount of skill. You did that by making everything large scale so you can land on ramps easier with a lot of speed and there's a lot of large gaps, spins, and maneuvers you have to do to land on the ramps properly. I don't feel laggy when surfing your map or legends either. Also when are you gonna finish surf_this jail version? I really like that map lol.

Offline Helix

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2010, 08:54:00 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kdIMSUue9s

Some project I worked on few months ago. Who knows if I will revive this one lol, really lacking inspiration.
Anyway, watch stage 2, is that what you mean?

Offline Rapsodia

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2010, 02:25:32 PM »
I am making a linear map where you get ultra-speed juts surfing...without trigger_pushes, and a original surf-way...i hope finish it, because i have to admit is very funny ^^

The problem of make a map with a lot of speed is you have to do big things ( ramps,obstacles,longjumps... etc ) to get a flow map...and sometimes, is a bit boring :p
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 02:28:39 PM by Rapsodia »

Offline SintaxError

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2010, 03:58:54 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kdIMSUue9s

Some project I worked on few months ago. Who knows if I will revive this one lol, really lacking inspiration.
Anyway, watch stage 2, is that what you mean?

Not sure about the gameplay, but that's actually a really sick looking map.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 04:28:50 PM by SintaxError »

Offline hellraisedsurfer

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2010, 03:26:54 PM »
MOVING RAMPS IS A CRIME AGAINST HAMMER!

Moving anything else is ok.

lol sorry ment not to make it -.- dont know why i wrote this....


i would have wrote: "as long as it aint moving ramps, the map which taught me that is surf_pavillion..."
It took a lot of complicated incest to produce the Buckaj 

Offline Helix

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2010, 06:49:28 PM »
Not sure about the gameplay, but that's actually a really sick looking map.
Well thanks. What do you mean with you are not sure about the gameplay?

By the way: Your post gave me reason to start again.

Offline FAJ

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2010, 06:55:54 PM »
Sintax, your posts give me reason to live \

Offline RazerSurf

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2010, 07:34:27 PM »
Sintax, your posts give me reason to live \


FAJ, Gaj, makes me jizz. Just thought you should know. \

Offline Helix

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2010, 08:42:38 PM »
Sintax, your posts give me reason to live \
Hey don't make a laugh out of that! >:l I finally found the reason to live again!

Offline SintaxError

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2010, 11:42:02 PM »
Well thanks. What do you mean with you are not sure about the gameplay?

By the way: Your post gave me reason to start again.

Well, that's good. 

I just meant that there's really not enough footage of the map to get a good impression of the gameplay.

Offline bravesurf

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2010, 11:26:52 AM »
Bravesurf look at your own map, surf_this, there's tons of speed and it requires a good amount of skill. You did that by making everything large scale so you can land on ramps easier with a lot of speed and there's a lot of large gaps, spins, and maneuvers you have to do to land on the ramps properly. I don't feel laggy when surfing your map or legends either. Also when are you gonna finish surf_this jail version? I really like that map lol.
You're right, in surf_this you have a lot of speed through out the whole map. The difference though, is that it doesnt have "sharp angles and narrow areas". I mean, it does have some 180s, but the area where you need to turn is big enough to make a smooth slow turn, rather than having to cut corners in high speed resulting in speed loss and annoyment.
Anyway, the basics of all surfmaps is ofcourse balance. Any map and concept turns out great as long as speed, obstacles, duration, size and difficulty is well balanced. I think this is what's missing from a lot of surfmaps now adays. I catch myself saying this all the time about new maps, the ideas and creativity is great, but the execution lacks finesse and thoroughness. In other words, idea good - lazy mapping.

Offline FAJ

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2010, 11:39:14 AM »
Which is strange, because I feel the opposite about most maps comming out today. Lack of ideas/innovation/creativity/etc but with good execution. Most new maps look pretty good, are leak-free, have some sort of visual gimmick etc. I don't think construction is the weak link in the map chain, I think it is a lack of innovation. Or at least a lack of motivation for it. Not the mappers fault in many cases.

Offline Helix

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2010, 04:44:29 PM »
I don't think construction is the weak link in the map chain, I think it is a lack of innovation. Or at least a lack of motivation for it. Not the mappers fault in many cases.

How can you not blame the mapper for bringing out un-innovated maps?

Offline FAJ

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2010, 05:41:56 PM »
I didn't say that I didn't blame them. I am usually the first to call a mapper/map not being worthwhile. I just mean that it isn't the mappers fault usually that there is no motivation to innovate.

If I churn out crap, people will play it, and there will be a group of people that love it.

If I make a masterpiece and innovate, people will play it, and there will be a group of people that love it.

So... where is the motivation? I don't think it is the mapper's fault, per se, that they are not motivated by the community. I can blame them for not being motivated by themselves.

Offline Helix

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2010, 08:48:48 PM »
I didn't say that I didn't blame them. I am usually the first to call a mapper/map not being worthwhile. I just mean that it isn't the mappers fault usually that there is no motivation to innovate.

If I churn out crap, people will play it, and there will be a group of people that love it.

If I make a masterpiece and innovate, people will play it, and there will be a group of people that love it.

So... where is the motivation? I don't think it is the mapper's fault, per se, that they are not motivated by the community. I can blame them for not being motivated by themselves.

Glad to know that I am working hard to break this problem. <--my own conclusion lol

Offline bravesurf

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2010, 02:00:51 AM »
Which is strange, because I feel the opposite about most maps comming out today. Lack of ideas/innovation/creativity/etc but with good execution. Most new maps look pretty good, are leak-free, have some sort of visual gimmick etc. I don't think construction is the weak link in the map chain, I think it is a lack of innovation. Or at least a lack of motivation for it. Not the mappers fault in many cases.
It's true that a lot of new maps look good, but the ramps are bad. Often too steep and without playerclip. Also mappers seem to have forgot to slice off the bottom to remove bugs. Lighting is also either very dull, or very overdone. Spotlights are sadly coming back and attention to detail, like fitting the env_sun and light_environment to the skybox, is nowhere to be found.
There are maps that are both new and well made, but the majority seem to have some general flaws. The reason some people love shitty maps, is because they dont know why ramps are bugged. They tend to blame the server and not the mapper. Personally I don't make maps to please anyone other than my own creativity. If people who love buggy ramps and lazy mapping don't like my maps, so be it. Motivation shouldn't be a problem. If you have an idea you think is cool, that should be motivation enough.

Offline Helix

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2010, 10:25:37 AM »
Hum I agree. However I do make maps to satisfy the public. But sometimes I feel my expectations from the public is too big. Like, a map should be legendary.
However, there are so many mappers nowadays which release so many maps (both good and bad maps).

The public is not attracted to new releases as they used to be. It's a bit disappointing but unchangeable.
I always try to look through the public's eyes and conclude how I would react to my own map. Would I like it or not? (Looks, Gameplay).
And THAT makes me unsatisfied a lot of times which results in not releasing my map.

I just need more motivation to map. Even the maps where I know that the public will like it aren't motivating for me to continue to work on. Don't know why.

Offline Orange

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2010, 07:30:48 AM »
Sorry for the bump, but I'd like to point out something. The more speed you gain, the more sudden cornering will make you lose ALOT of speed and mostly all of it on fairly laggy servers. That's why I hate going around walls on a very high speed, because every sudden movement slows you down, so you're going to need to surf very smoothly (which might be a problem for the average skill surfer).
High speed is fine, but don't overdo it (stage 3 of pavilion).
That's how I feel about it..
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Offline pand3mic

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2010, 10:56:46 PM »
ive seen a good portion of these maps, amplitude, annoyance, blah blah blah

ive seen alot of the "hard to gain speed ones" too, rapid, frequency, ANYTHING made by copy-mark.

and there are some that deal with fast reaction skillllzzzzzz where you have to be quick to dodge stuff, like tronic...
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Offline Jesuswashomeless

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2010, 04:54:10 PM »
I might be off topic here (I didn't really read all the posts), but Helix, the space level with the long blue ramps on that map looked sick. it is purely surf, there arn't  any tricks or twists, it looked fun, and it was very basic. Most maps now are literally 70% strafing and bhopping... its retarded. My favorite levels of all time are (1) surf_globalchaos level 1 and (2) surf_crystal_beta4 (i think) level 4, the old level 4, not the new one. They are obvious in objective and fun to play. They rely on nothing but surfing, which is why they are my favorites.


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Offline Justin.UK

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2010, 06:49:45 PM »
thing about keeping a high speed is that the map would have to be long, which means longer compile time etc, but i like the idea, i prefer speed skill surf to short quick turn skill surf haha  \

Offline Jesuswashomeless

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Re: High Speed Skill Surf
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2010, 05:25:38 PM »
Well after reading the thread, here is my response...

The idea of having a ton of speed and difficulty coming from having to cut sharp angles or go through randomly dispersed pillars sounds somewhat similar to what I hate, which is stupid obstacles that do not measure a surfers skill, but a surfers ability to memorize a level. For instance, if you were not very good at surfing and you played surf_lithium level 5, you would be able to see the whole level and know exactly what you needed to do, but chances are you couldn't do it. This is a fair trade, if you ask me. On the other hand, lets say you are an incredible surfer and you are playing a map where the most challenging part is to find your way through erratically placed pillars and then had to make a quick series of sharp turns, your first reaction would most likely be, "wow, this is stupid." Once you got the hang of it, you might start to think it is boring because you have already found the easiest path through the pillars and know exactly how to turn the corners that follow after. In my opinion, this leads to almost no replay value.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, lets say you have a level where the surf is difficult because of just that: the surfing aspect. Even if ramps are placed in a way where it is hard to maintain your ability to surf, it is fun because of the challenge to surf it. The level would have nothing to do with memorization or repetition of awkward obstacles, but rather present a challenge in which ability to surf smoothly and efficiently come into play.

I see where you are coming from with this post, though I may have misunderstood you a bit. I agree that many levels today are a combination of both slow surfing with ridiculous obstacles that make no sense and are only a challenge because of how poorly made they are, and that if levels were to be made that are fast-paced with a similar (but not the same) design, they would be more fun. It is just my opinion that small holes in walls, random pillars, sharp corners, or ridiculous amounts of strafing (such as spirals) do not make a map fun or memorable, no matter if you're going fast or slow.


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