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Author Topic: Sequel Time?  (Read 10792 times)

Offline Tioga060

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Sequel Time?
« on: March 14, 2012, 06:09:42 AM »
If there's two things that are true about mappers nowadays, it's these:
1) bad at coming up with original themes
2) love to moan about the glory days of combat surfing/maps with jails

Well I have an idea to address both of these: sequels! Who doesn't like a good sequel (the joke is that sequels are usually terrible).

Anyways, we should appoint mappers to work on sequels to classic jail linears complete with a good jail and surf that scales as players pass jail checkpoints.

Here are some good series that have been handled by different mappers:
The network series (will probably need ryan s's approval to make a '11 and '12(yes I know 2011 has passed who cares)).
The Catalyst series, I'm assuming razer doesn't care if someone makes a catalyst three and copymark isn't around to say no.
Tell bravesurf to make a jail for surf_this
And that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Thoughts? Anyone interested? We could have some people concentrate on jail design and others on making the surf.

Offline silverlol

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2012, 01:17:20 PM »
lolrevlis3 jail?

Offline S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2012, 02:19:22 PM »
lolrevlis3 jail?
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/RFZrzg62Zj0" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/RFZrzg62Zj0</a>


Edit: you have my permission, I don't really have any motivation to continue mapping at the moment.
...and my axe.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 06:30:07 PM by Ryan_S »

Offline Skittl35

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2012, 06:23:46 PM »
I'm not sure more of the same is the answer to these problems.  Even if we do add jails to the maps you listed, IMO it simply won't be the same and people will continue to complain.  At the very least all new maps would need to be made, simpler maps* that will attract the combat surf crowd.  Said maps can still carry the themes of the maps you listed, but they really shouldn't be hard, otherwise the only people who can surf them without going to jail will just go to a surf timer server where they don't need to worry about that sort of thing.

As far as original themes are concerned, who is this an issue for?  I mean I know a few of you guys are making sequels (lolrevlis, and timewarp come to mind) but are you necessarily out of ideas?  I've got two themes I'd like to make maps with - I just can't find the time and/or motivation at the moment.  If you guys are out of ideas I guess I could post a few screens of some thoughts I've had...

* Don't forget that a map like surf_legends presents a challenge to most combat surfers

Offline vsx

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2012, 09:27:01 PM »
If there's two things that are true about mappers nowadays, it's these:
1) bad at coming up with original themes
2) love to moan about the glory days of combat surfing/maps with jails

Well I have an idea to address both of these: sequels! Who doesn't like a good sequel (the joke is that sequels are usually terrible).

Anyways, we should appoint mappers to work on sequels to classic jail linears complete with a good jail and surf that scales as players pass jail checkpoints.

Here are some good series that have been handled by different mappers:
The network series (will probably need ryan s's approval to make a '11 and '12(yes I know 2011 has passed who cares)).
The Catalyst series, I'm assuming razer doesn't care if someone makes a catalyst three and copymark isn't around to say no.
Tell bravesurf to make a jail for surf_this
And that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Thoughts? Anyone interested? We could have some people concentrate on jail design and others on making the surf.
Tell bravesurf to make a jail for surf_this
surf_this
now thats a map that I want a sequel

Offline Egan

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2012, 09:56:01 PM »
but are you necessarily out of ideas?

I think what hinders creativity in map making is a lack of rescources. By this I mean, there arn't many new maps coming out that bring new models that fit one theme, or new textures for the map too.

People got around this for TF2 with things like The Swamp Pack or The Construction Pack, which incorporated member's custom models into one pack to fit one theme. Something like this can then be used to create mini themes out of them. Like, swamp can turn into a bog with caves, or slums of a city that's half filled with water.   

Offline Paper-Cut

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2012, 02:13:02 PM »
I think what hinders creativity in map making is a lack of rescources. By this I mean, there arn't many new maps coming out that bring new models that fit one theme, or new textures for the map too.

Bullshit. This is the oldest mapping cop-out in the book. You don't need new textures or new models to make your map stand out, though it helps. Plus, there's nothing stopping you from learning how and creating them yourself.
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Offline FAJ

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2012, 04:56:37 PM »
New themes/textures/models/etc is not what surfing needs. Thoughtful and interesting design/gameplay/mechanics makes for a good surf map.

Talking about theme/textures/models is the sort of thing skill-mappers do. As if the colors/packaging of a map really makes it different from any other.

Offline S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2012, 05:17:27 PM »
Most custom textures look gaudy as hell anyway, even the non gaudy ones do on surf maps.
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Offline Skittl35

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2012, 05:52:24 PM »
I think what hinders creativity in map making is a lack of rescources. By this I mean, there arn't many new maps coming out that bring new models that fit one theme, or new textures for the map too.

I must admit this applies to me to some extent.  While it doesn't keep me from releasing a map, I often get stuck on trying to find the right texture scheme which I suck at.  If I had a better understanding of custom textures it wouldn't be such a big deal, but for now it's pretty basic.  I think part of the problem is that I'm usually looking for something very specific and inherently unavailable.  I think I even made a post or two on these forums asking if anybody know of any good granite / marble textures.  I ended up scrapping the idea that would have used those because while I could have made a texture that looks like that, I had (and still have) no idea how to make the surface reflective.  I'm going to need to for map #4 though.  That's assuming map #3 ever gets released.

Offline vsx

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2012, 06:59:01 PM »
I must admit this applies to me to some extent.  While it doesn't keep me from releasing a map, I often get stuck on trying to find the right texture scheme which I suck at.  If I had a better understanding of custom textures it wouldn't be such a big deal, but for now it's pretty basic.  I think part of the problem is that I'm usually looking for something very specific and inherently unavailable.  I think I even made a post or two on these forums asking if anybody know of any good granite / marble textures.  I ended up scrapping the idea that would have used those because while I could have made a texture that looks like that, I had (and still have) no idea how to make the surface reflective.  I'm going to need to for map #4 though.  That's assuming map #3 ever gets released.
I miss ur maps, I miss ur big rooms style and I miss playing with you. *sniff*

Offline Egan

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2012, 11:37:23 PM »
You don't need new textures or new models to make your map stand out, though it helps. Plus, there's nothing stopping you from learning how and creating them yourself.

Yeah.

New themes/textures/models/etc is not what surfing needs. Thoughtful and interesting design/gameplay/mechanics makes for a good surf map.

Talking about theme/textures/models is the sort of thing skill-mappers do. As if the colors/packaging of a map really makes it different from any other.

You mean if you saw 100 fullbright maps all with the same textures, that would be fine and dandy for you to surf on? I know there are waaay many combinations of things, and new interesting dynamics to add into maps, but to me - and atleast a few others - not being able to detail it to be unique could kill your mood to continue making it.

As if the colors/packaging of a map really makes it different from any other.

Yes. They absolutely do!  ( http://artpass.tf2maps.net/ )

« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 11:56:25 PM by Egan »

Offline Diealready

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2012, 12:04:45 AM »
A map can have an awesome design, but still look like shit that had no effort put into it. A good design with original mechanics and style is just as important as aesthetics.

But at this point, it's hard to make something with an original design when pretty much all you can do is mash existing mechanics together.

Offline Paper-Cut

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2012, 03:25:48 AM »
You mean if you saw 100 fullbright maps all with the same textures, that would be fine and dandy for you to surf on? I know there are waaay many combinations of things, and new interesting dynamics to add into maps, but to me - and atleast a few others - not being able to detail it to be unique could kill your mood to continue making it.

Not directed at you - but if you can't make your map unique with the stock textures, then you're in real trouble. If you think surf is bland, go over to the Interlopers forums and see what the mappers over there are doing with all the stock materials. There are literally thousands of different textures. Every single one of them looks different in different lighting and environments. If that's not a big enough sandbox for you, then you can learn how to create your own which is not hard at all. There are multiple guides written BY Valve FOR mappers to learn how to create textures and VMT files. Hell, there are even PROGRAMS that aid the process along!

The simple fact is this: If people are still making unique maps with stock materials, you can do the same with a surf map. FAJ has done it, Buck has done it, Sintax has done it, Ryan has done, I've done it, UDEL Steve has done it, hell, even Lightning has managed to pull this one off. It's all about the creativity of the SURF mechanics themselves, not the interior design of your level.

Side-note: Posts like this do not belong in Ripples.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 03:28:50 AM by Paper-Cut »
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Offline Tioga060

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2012, 03:37:48 AM »
Ah I was hoping to handle both assigning roles and posting updates in this thread, but it's probably better in discussions.

Anyways, I'll be working on some sort of network 2012, anyone else interested in taking up one of these projects?

Offline Paper-Cut

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2012, 03:43:33 AM »
Yeah I only moved it because I didn't really think it'd stem out into an actual map. Honestly though, if more people posted their map ideas here before ripples, we'd have a lot more maps that might actually get finished lol.

Edit: Bigloop 2k12 FAJ?  \
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Offline FAJ

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2012, 01:20:30 PM »
If I got back into surfing, that would likely be the first remake I would do to get back into mapping. Would need to do a smaller map first before I took on a bigger project, which is something I would like to do. I just can't map without being in the habit of surfing though, which is very unappealing to me lately.

Offline scaz.zaf

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2012, 02:20:01 PM »
I'm hoping that once the surf mod is released, hopefully new and veteran mallets will find motivation to start new/rehash old projects.
Regarding the lack of inspiration via newer textures, I've been able to find major inspiration from the silkroad texture pack (released by firewavezz or someone), enough to base an entire map off of a few really basic and unlikely textures that could have come from anywhere. So you really can't blame the lack of new maps on the lack of new content.

If you need inspiration, go back and play some old school maps (legends, forbidden ways) and realize that just because a map is made by an experienced mapper, doesn't mean it has to be incredibly difficult. More people have fond memories of those simpler and easier maps because they are enjoyable, not arduous.

Offline Skittl35

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2012, 05:21:54 PM »
I miss ur maps, I miss ur big rooms style and I miss playing with you. *sniff*

awww thanks <3

If it makes you feel any better, map #3 will be released at some point for sure.  Even if I'm not the one to finish it, I've spoken to another mapper about taking over if it really comes to that.  The surf is pretty much finished, I'm down to detailing.  Problem is I haven't felt like working on it in at least a month.

Offline spoz

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2012, 06:20:20 PM »
(the joke is that sequels are usually terrible).

Quote
But if u really wanna see a screwed up map take a look at that greatriver awesome 1... freaked the shit out of me... its like a child molestation adventure.....

Offline vsx

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2012, 08:46:53 PM »
awww thanks <3

If it makes you feel any better, map #3 will be released at some point for sure.  Even if I'm not the one to finish it, I've spoken to another mapper about taking over if it really comes to that.  The surf is pretty much finished, I'm down to detailing.  Problem is I haven't felt like working on it in at least a month.
so map #3 will be some kind of legacy?

Offline Skittl35

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2012, 09:32:11 PM »
so map #3 will be some kind of legacy?

Hard to say right now.  I'm hoping not.

Offline Orange

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2012, 08:12:46 AM »
I'm confused Skittles, what was map #2?
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Offline Skittl35

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2012, 12:36:14 PM »
I'm confused Skittles, what was map #2?

Map #1: Sundown
Map #2: Waterworks

Offline Orange

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2012, 01:53:09 PM »
Map #1: Sundown
Map #2: Waterworks

Oh right.. I forgot about Sundown  \
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Offline vsx

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Re: Sequel Time?
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2012, 08:19:52 PM »
Hard to say right now.  I'm hoping not.
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