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Author Topic: Surf_Mesa_Mine  (Read 37138 times)

Offline Arblarg

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Surf_Mesa_Mine
« on: July 05, 2014, 01:29:39 PM »
Welp, its finally here. Hopefully it will have been worth the weight.
Its got a couple secret things, no garbo jails and a single 'bonus' stage (which rewards a flashy trail).

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/X2_iNDoxA6s" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/X2_iNDoxA6s</a>







Download from gamebanaynay : http://css.gamebanana.com/maps/181607

Offline Panzerhandschuh

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2014, 08:57:30 PM »
I don't really understand what's going on with the video editing but the map looks pretty good. The layout seems more interesting than your last map. Also, good job with the displacements because I know mapping with them is a pain in the ass.

Offline Arblarg

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2014, 09:22:57 PM »
They're 'flashbacks' to previous versions of the map, time lapses if you will.

Thanks though c:

If anybody cares, the map is currently being hosted on Turtle Gaming for Gmod. IP : 64.94.101.57:27015

edit :

Don't tell anyone I posted this, you fucking faggot.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 01:50:01 PM by Arblarg »

Offline RazerSurf

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2014, 10:28:41 AM »
Looks pretty cool, will test it later. Whether or not it was worth the weight is hard to say without knowing how much the map actually weighs. I suggest you put it on your bathroom scale and find out.

Offline Sacred

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2014, 02:23:25 PM »
does it have playerclip on the ramps this time?

edit:
just tested it, visuals are great (better than mesa imo)! surf is.. well, too easy imo, but still nice to surf fast and therefore fun - and playerclipped ramps, OMG!  \
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 02:33:59 PM by Sacred »

Offline Arblarg

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2014, 03:33:42 AM »
Looks pretty cool, will test it later. Whether or not it was worth the weight is hard to say without knowing how much the map actually weighs. I suggest you put it on your bathroom scale and find out.
Definitely worth the weight. Bathroom scale read '2phat'.

edit:
playerclipped ramps, OMG!  \

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYpz3abAk98

Offline maltsns

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2014, 03:36:18 AM »
I like the shortcuts/alternative routes in this map. One thing though is that you definitely should either put teleporters on the bottom corners of displacements or actual playerclips to make it consistently surfable. There are a few areas that seem like surfing on a displacement could potentially be faster, but would end up causing the map to become less fun. Overall though its a pretty fun map for surfing fast and has decent flow.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 03:59:19 AM by maltsns »

Offline Arblarg

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2014, 11:07:25 PM »
 \
I like the shortcuts/alternative routes in this map. One thing though is that you definitely should either put teleporters on the bottom corners of displacements or actual playerclips to make it consistently surfable. There are a few areas that seem like surfing on a displacement could potentially be faster, but would end up causing the map to become less fun. Overall though its a pretty fun map for surfing fast and has decent flow.
I tried to be as consistent as possible with how the player perceives what is surfable or not, in regards to displacement. In almost all cases, if its the rock texture you should be able to touch it. There are some areas where this isn't true, simply by design, but in any case you really shouldn't expect an unreliable thing to be reliable (displacement surfing/bhopping). Also what is it you want, you have conflicting statements in your post. Do you want fun or do you want cheese strats?

Surfing / bhopping on displacements should be more for style points than actually doing shortcuts. In almost all cases, its quicker to just air strafe.

Offline maltsns

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2014, 12:51:34 AM »
I was sorta overtired when I wrote that so my wording might of been a bit off, but overall surfing on displacements is incredibly buggy and inconsistent. My suggestion was to put teleporters on them to prevent people from trying to surf them. If you don't want to do that then at least create an invisible playerclip ramp slightly over them so you can at least surf them consistently without it bugging out.

Offline Arblarg

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2014, 01:06:16 AM »
I was sorta overtired when I wrote that so my wording might of been a bit off, but overall surfing on displacements is incredibly buggy and inconsistent. My suggestion was to put teleporters on them to prevent people from trying to surf them. If you don't want to do that then at least create an invisible playerclip ramp slightly over them so you can at least surf them consistently without it bugging out.
The problem with doing that is the same reason why most people opt to make their maps out of standard brushes, not displacements. Unless I left things entirely undisplaced, the playerclips and or teleports would not reflect the actual 'design' of the cave wall. Theres simply too many vertices on a displacement to accurately cover them with triggers or clips. If I could tie displacements to entities, then I would do it, alas, that is not possible to my knowledge.

Just can't have the best of both worlds.

Offline Diealready

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2014, 06:35:44 PM »
Right away I'm noticing some very poor optimization on this map, I'm normally at 300 fps and anywhere I go in the map brings me down to 90.
The first mesa also had much smoother ramps from what I remember, dunno why you opted to make them really choppy when you're going at speeds that it's impossible to ramp-strafe at.

You've also got the issue overgrowth2 had, nearly every jump is a blind-strafe and you never know where the next ramp is unless you memorize the entire map. You should always be able to see the next ramp, or at least have visual cues that direct the player.

Some of the surf is quite awkward as well, ie ramps 3->4 and that part where you launch straight up and hit your head.


From what I played of it so far it doesn't seem like you have blinding HDR every few seconds so that's good at least.

Offline Panzerhandschuh

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2014, 06:39:03 PM »
The problem with doing that is the same reason why most people opt to make their maps out of standard brushes, not displacements. Unless I left things entirely undisplaced, the playerclips and or teleports would not reflect the actual 'design' of the cave wall. Theres simply too many vertices on a displacement to accurately cover them with triggers or clips. If I could tie displacements to entities, then I would do it, alas, that is not possible to my knowledge.

Just can't have the best of both worlds.

You can disable hull collisions on the displacement and make it so players can fall through the displacements and hit a trigger. You can also try to figure out how the sand on HL2 maps spawns antlions. Maybe you can get something similar to work with teleporting.

Offline Arblarg

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2014, 07:45:47 PM »
Right away I'm noticing some very poor optimization on this map, I'm normally at 300 fps and anywhere I go in the map brings me down to 90.
Not sure why you're even complaining here. If you're getting more than 60 then I really don't know the issue is and unless you have a 120hz monitor, you should be capping at 60 FPS anyway. My dell inspiron laptop (intel i3, 4gb RAM, intel 'HD' graphics) was the target spec FPS for the map, 30 at all times. Its hard to optimize for FPS when you're using things like blend modulate textures and displacements. As far as VIS / visibility optimization goes, I think its about as good as it can get. r_drawdisp 0. Your FPS will probably sky rocket. For the record my baby GT240 which is somewhere in the range of 5 years old sustains 200+ FPS. Its a $25 graphics card.

The first mesa also had much smoother ramps from what I remember, dunno why you opted to make them really choppy when you're going at speeds that it's impossible to ramp-strafe at.
I'm not sure why people say this. They're the exact same ramps, pulled from the same prefabs I made.

You've also got the issue overgrowth2 had, nearly every jump is a blind-strafe and you never know where the next ramp is unless you memorize the entire map. You should always be able to see the next ramp, or at least have visual cues that direct the player.
So just about every surf map ever? Not every map needs to be a large open box in the sky where you render everything from everywhere (in fact, none of them should be). The visual cues are that you're in a cave. A little bit of trial and error is fine, nobody ever got a 7 minute time on omnific with their absolute first try ever being on the map. In most cases there is literally no other way to go in the map but to follow the cave walls. During the time I did beta versions, I never got a complaint of "where to go", but rather "how do". This is probably because I did it on gmod with people, some of which were less than decent at surfing.

Some of the surf is quite awkward as well, ie ramps 3->4 and that part where you launch straight up and hit your head.
You're able to ride the cave wall and ceiling to maintain your speed, just don't ride the entire ramp proceeding it, come off it early.

From what I played of it so far it doesn't seem like you have blinding HDR every few seconds so that's good at least.
Sun sprites != HDR, but ok. Mesa and Mesa mine have the exact same light_environment settings. Theres probably a concmd to not draw suns / overlays though.

You can disable hull collisions on the displacement and make it so players can fall through the displacements and hit a trigger. You can also try to figure out how the sand on HL2 maps spawns antlions. Maybe you can get something similar to work with teleporting.
The first idea sounds fine and dandy, but like I've said, its really hard to make triggers have the exact shape of a displaced displacement. That would also be complete no fun allowed mode. I'll try looking into the antlion thing, but I doubt its relatively close to even being relevant.

Offline scaz.zaf

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2014, 07:57:42 PM »
Right away I'm noticing some very poor optimization on this map, I'm normally at 300 fps and anywhere I go in the map brings me down to 90.
The first mesa also had much smoother ramps from what I remember, dunno why you opted to make them really choppy when you're going at speeds that it's impossible to ramp-strafe at.

You've also got the issue overgrowth2 had, nearly every jump is a blind-strafe and you never know where the next ramp is unless you memorize the entire map. You should always be able to see the next ramp, or at least have visual cues that direct the player.

Some of the surf is quite awkward as well, ie ramps 3->4 and that part where you launch straight up and hit your head.


From what I played of it so far it doesn't seem like you have blinding HDR every few seconds so that's good at least.

This summed up my problems with the map exactly.
I liked the first one more, flowed better and had more diverse areas.

Offline Krazy

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2014, 07:44:15 AM »
This map is raping my FPS, making it nearly impossible for me to even get through the first three ramps.

I have to admire how great the scenery is, and I do like the idea of the shortcuts near the end.

As stated earlier in this thread, there are too many blind turns. Along with the FPS drops, this makes the map unbeatable for me. Also, the end of the map was rather anti-climatic, where you've set out a bit of a challenging linear map, and then the final jump takes nearly no effort. Also, the difficulty throughout the map isn't retained that well. The ramps in some areas are also not very smooth. In my opinion, these are the major weaknesses of the map.

As much as the first one was kind of boring and awkward in some places, I'm still going to have to say I enjoyed it more than this.

Offline Tioga060

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2014, 10:21:58 PM »
Boring generic tier 1 map

Offline Arblarg

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2014, 10:47:37 PM »
Boring generic tier 1 map
Do you ever do anything but make 1 sentence posts and threads calling for people to collab to do work for you?

Offline Sacred

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2014, 07:11:49 AM »
Do you ever do anything but make 1 sentence posts and threads calling for people to collab to do work for you?

thats how tioga is, dont take him seriously \

Offline Tioga060

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2014, 08:43:44 PM »
people to collab to do work for you?

You think a single one of those europeans in any of my collabs had stages that even compiled correctly?

boring generic tier 1 linear

Offline scaz.zaf

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2014, 09:10:47 PM »
You think a single one of those europeans in any of my collabs had stages that even compiled correctly?

boring generic tier 1 linear
Эй, парень мои этапы работал штраф

Offline The call me queer

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2014, 01:52:33 AM »
You think a single one of those europeans in any of my collabs had stages that even compiled correctly?

Yeah seriously, how could you get theirs to compile correctly if you can't even do it yourself???

Offline RizzLe

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2014, 02:29:30 AM »
This one looks a bit better than the last one I guess, a bit more interesting of a theme, but the lava texture still looks out of place and bad. I enjoyed some bits of the surf like where you ride the roof, but for the most part, I was overshooting/undershooting and landing between ramps constantly and completing it came down to getting lucky/surfing off buggy displacements. If you use a similar theme you should space the ramps out more/make them longer if its a blind angle.
Juxtapo

Offline NamedPlayer

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2014, 08:19:22 PM »
but for the most part, I was overshooting/undershooting and landing between ramps constantly and completing it came down to getting lucky/surfing off buggy displacements.

Overshooting and undershooting is entirely experience based. It is meant to be a challenge at first until you practice the map more.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 04:26:01 AM by NamedPlayer »

Offline Diealready

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2014, 12:19:52 AM »
Overshooting and undershooting is entirely skill/experience based. It is meant to be a challenge at first until you practice the map more.
When you play a map for the first time, you should be able to predict where the next ramp is. That's how flow works.

It isn't fun to go ramp A -> undershoot -> restart -> ramp A -> ramp B -> overshoot -> restart -> ramp A -> ramp B -> ramp C -> undershoot -> restart and so on until you've beaten the map. When you surf one ramp, the next ramp should be in a place that makes sense in regards to the ones prior to it.

Knowing or being able to predict where the next ramp is doesn't make it any easier. The difficulty should come from reaching the next ramp, which is where your time should be spent practising. You shouldn't have to waste 15 minutes redoing the map over and over to see where the next ramp is because they have bad flow.


In short, this map does not flow well at all.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 12:22:01 AM by Diealready »

Offline The call me queer

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2014, 01:40:44 AM »
No, it doesn't. Luckily it's easy enough you can fail at every surf and still climb it to make it to the next.

Offline Arblarg

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2014, 04:28:30 AM »
When you play a map for the first time, you should be able to predict where the next ramp is. That's how flow works.

It isn't fun to go ramp A -> undershoot -> restart -> ramp A -> ramp B -> overshoot -> restart -> ramp A -> ramp B -> ramp C -> undershoot -> restart and so on until you've beaten the map. When you surf one ramp, the next ramp should be in a place that makes sense in regards to the ones prior to it.

Knowing or being able to predict where the next ramp is doesn't make it any easier. The difficulty should come from reaching the next ramp, which is where your time should be spent practising. You shouldn't have to waste 15 minutes redoing the map over and over to see where the next ramp is because they have bad flow.

Jesus, what is every surf map ever? Its like you haven't ever surfed anything more than a tier 1. You can't fault me on something that literally does not exist in surf maps that aren't outright treadmills (or not omnific). Its not like this map has huge box rooms where theres a tiny hole in the walls thats not outlined by a different texture.

Also since you didn't seem to notice it,  any major area that would be ever so slightly disorienting has the darker rock texture  painted on that extends all the way from the ramp you come off of to the next one. Hell, they're even displaced to stick out. Here, I'll highlight it for your guidance so you'll start seeing it.






I mean if you can't figure out where to go in a CAVE then I don't know how else to help you. Its not a labyrinth or anything.

Offline maltsns

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2014, 04:46:47 AM »
People aren't really complaining about blind turns/not knowing where to go. The issue is that when a player is leaving a ramp, and all they know is a blind turn is ahead of them, they will attempt to leave the ramp pretty much centered/straight. For most maps that estimation will usually be enough to get you to the next ramp without a major problem if you don't fuck up. The issue is that leaving a ramp centered on this map will just cause you to undershoot/overshoot the next ramp 90% of the time.
Also this doesn't make the map bad, just annoying to learn. It's a pretty fun map once you know it.

Also those texture blends as guides just look like detailing.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 04:50:43 AM by maltsns »

Offline Diealready

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2014, 02:55:11 AM »
Jesus, what is every surf map ever? Its like you haven't ever surfed anything more than a tier 1. You can't fault me on something that literally does not exist in surf maps that aren't outright treadmills (or not omnific). Its not like this map has huge box rooms where theres a tiny hole in the walls thats not outlined by a different texture.

Also since you didn't seem to notice it,  any major area that would be ever so slightly disorienting has the darker rock texture  painted on that extends all the way from the ramp you come off of to the next one. Hell, they're even displaced to stick out. Here, I'll highlight it for your guidance so you'll start seeing it.

I mean if you can't figure out where to go in a CAVE then I don't know how else to help you. Its not a labyrinth or anything.

Did you even read the post? The problem people are having is not that they're getting lost in the most basic linear map ever, it's that nearly every ramp is a blind corner with no obvious indicator of where the next ramp is. Yes, we realize it's around that corner. But how high do I need to flick? How far is the next ramp from this one? We have no idea until we memorize it. If the map flows well, you don't need to ask those questions.
Literally no one has noticed the slightly different textures on the wall leading to the next ramp because you've got the same texture splattered around the entire map, it blends in and just looks like simple detailing.

Also learn to take some fucking criticism, holy shit. You act like you're the best mapper to ever grace the forum.
If you don't want your work to be criticised then don't release anything.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 03:01:34 AM by Diealready »

Offline Arblarg

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2014, 05:55:10 AM »
His post wasn't criticism, his post was 'I can't surf and I don't want to have to try to git gud'.

Please though, tell me the names of the maps you completed blindly for the first time so that I can see how they 'cued' you on how you're supposed to surf. I'm sticking to my guns when I say no map does that well enough outside of treadmill tier 1's. Every surf map has trial and error, its not inherently a bad thing and this certainly does not have anywhere near as much as a lot of surf maps out there, yet they don't get any flak on it.

Offline Sacred

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2014, 06:44:57 AM »
No Arblarg, it's true, I had the same problem. And it's not really helpful that there are many places looking alike so you sometimes forgot to flick low / high where you should. It really took a while to get used to it, and it was different that on most other maps. Can't really explain why..

Offline Arblarg

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2014, 06:59:19 AM »
I don't deny that it happens on mesa_mine, but what I am saying is that its not anywhere near as bad as it is in a lot of other maps out there. Every new map is a learning experience. Nobody knew how high or low to go when they played omnific or the distance or eternal they had to play the map a few times and become accustomed to it. All I'm saying is that I'm getting flak for something that is nigh upon non-existent within the ocean of surf maps out there.

Offline Diealready

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2014, 07:48:04 AM »
No one said anything about completing maps on their first try, but I'll list a bunch of maps that have good flow.

surf_4dimensional
surf_annoyance
surf_blackside
surf_catalyst2
surf_dusk
surf_eclipse
surf_ember
surf_forbidden_tomb (whatever the linear one is)
surf_graphia
surf_ing
surf_sluice
surf_the_gloaming
surf_this
surf_utopia
surf_waterworks
...
I'd list more but I'm not going to waste any more of my time.

The learning experience I had with those maps went like this:
-Get a bit of distance into the map, landing on ramps poorly but usually being able to predict/see where the next one is.
-Then I fail because I hit an obstacle, did not have enough speed to reach the next ramp, or hit a ramp way too awkwardly.
-Start again, making it past the spot I failed at previously with much more speed, before failing somewhere further ahead for the same reasons.
-Repeat this process until I've beaten the map for the first time.

My learning experience on surf_mesa_mine went like this:
-Surf 2 ramps into the map, turn a corner and undershoot the 3rd ramp.
-Surf 3 ramps into the map, turn a corner and overshoot the 4th ramp.
-Surf 4 ramps into the map, turn a corner and undershoot the 5th ramp.
-Repeat this process until I've beaten the map for the first time.
-I now have already memorized the entire map before beating it once, and am already sick of it.


My point is that if you're on a ramp, you should be able to see the next. If you can't see it, then you should be able to predict where it's going to be. In order to make a ramp predictable, consider where players are going to be when they leave the ramp. If they are naturally going to stay close to the spine, then the next ramp should not be in a place that requires the player to flick high up/suddenly gain more height. If players can't see that higher-up ramp, they will not expect it to be higher-up and will get frustrated at your poor design when they undershoot it.

The thing that makes a surf map hard is not supposed to be memorizing where every ramp is, the hard part is gaining/retaining/controlling momentum.

Offline Arblarg

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2014, 09:16:49 AM »
Please do go on with your list, you did actually put in one or two that handle the concept decently and I will certainly look into such things in the future.

surf_4dimensional - You have got to be joking, between not being able to tell where the glass is because bad cubemaps and where you're even supposed to go with how many ramps are in any given area...yeah no.
surf_annoyance - Almost every single jump is blind, although you more than likely have to flick up every time, theres no way of knowing without doing it once unless your guess just happens to be correct
surf_blackside - Quite a few blind ramps that you will not see until you've done every area at least once, unless you just happen to be inhumanly fast to respond to them. Forced bhop and holes in walls without outline or differentiation of textures
surf_catalyst2 - pretty good.
surf_dusk - Quite a bit of blind, required trigger_pushes. Garbo.
surf_eclipse - Arbitrary geometry floating in a wide open sky. 2obvious
surf_ember - Quite a bit of blind, poor color contrast and very dark, difficult to even tell what direction you should be going
surf_forbidden_tomb (whatever the linear one is) - Forbidden ways? Treadmill.
surf_graphia - Treadmill, lacks contrast on holes
surf_sluice - A little bit of blind, but tolerable
surf_the_gloaming - Treadmill, but otherwise, yes
surf_this - So much blind, this has to be a joke.
surf_utopia - Treadmill, but otherwise, yes
surf_waterworks - Pretty ok. Tolerable amounts of blind.

As for your experience with mesa_mine - I find it hard to believe that you only went one ramp further every time past the 2nd jump. I am of course biased by the fact that I designed it so I do know where everything is. However, with the supply of beta testers that I had, I did not get people unable to figure out where to go. I did 3 public betas on a server that averages 20 people during most of the day, 5 at a low. I've watched a lot of people try their hand at the map for the first time and the biggest thing I ever saw was people hitting their head, because all they know in surf is to try and compensate everything with height. A map that actually takes that crutch away from them is something they've had little to no experience with ever. The variations of height in most areas can only be 1024 units at any time, simply due to the structure of the cave. It really was my hope that people would be able to figure out to stay at the same height unless there was a change in the height of the cave walls and in actual practical application in game, it worked.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 09:19:01 AM by Arblarg »

Offline Sacred

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2014, 11:26:42 AM »
You still don't understand the difference between a blind flick where you ASSUME where the ramp PROBABLY is and therefore land it even without knowing and your map where you basically fuck up at every blind flick because it's nowhere close as expected. Not every blind flick is bad.

Offline Mr.Cow

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2014, 03:26:55 PM »
Aha I made surf_dusk in less than 2 weeks. \
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 03:29:32 PM by Mr.Cow »

Offline Arblarg

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2014, 03:30:56 PM »
You still don't understand the difference between a blind flick where you ASSUME where the ramp PROBABLY is and therefore land it even without knowing and your map where you basically fuck up at every blind flick because it's nowhere close as expected. Not every blind flick is bad.
Nah nah nah. They're all bad because an assumption is still an assumption and its dumb luck if that assumption succeeds. Only then when it succeeds do you accept it as 'ok' because your guess worked out and now you know, which is half the battle for any surf map. Guess its back to treadmill maps, meh.

Offline Sacred

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2014, 05:20:47 PM »
Maybe start making your maps a bit harder so it's not that boring tier1/2 surf where you overshoot ramps like hell.

Like if you need all the speed you got to make it to the next ramp you will barely overshoot it, right?

Offline The call me queer

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2014, 12:39:29 AM »
You can use details, map geometry, and the angles of the surfs themselves to set a certain take-off angle intuitively.

Say they are riding a flat surf high speed. They need to take off at a certain angle to make it around some blind corners and land nicely on the next surf.

Give them something that they can see before take-off that they need to go over, and a ceiling that they need to obviously avoid. If they clear that obstacle then they should be set to make it to the next surf.

Offline RizzLe

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2014, 08:18:58 PM »
Nah nah nah. They're all bad because an assumption is still an assumption and its dumb luck if that assumption succeeds. Only then when it succeeds do you accept it as 'ok' because your guess worked out and now you know, which is half the battle for any surf map. Guess its back to treadmill maps, meh.

Can you please stop trying to defend your shitty map? We get it, you understand how to detail and make a map look nice, but you still have a ways to go before you make something enjoyable. You should make more maps and test out different concepts before detailing to see what works and what is a boring pile of shit. You just need to be less concerned with keeping your image up as an architectural mastermind and focus on making something enjoyable, because when it comes down to it, nobody really gives a fuck how pretty you can make your boring map.
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Offline Arblarg

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Re: Surf_Mesa_Mine
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2014, 01:15:24 AM »
Can you please stop trying to defend your shitty map?
Sure.


Later nerds. See you all on the next release.